Poised to have a seriously big summer and it all begins today. Loaded with top notch grass horses in all classes and his typical patient hand should have him heating up as the temps and humidity reach the usual summer boiling levels. Eclipse Award finalist trainer also filled with New York breds who will make him a must use on your late summer Spa Pick 4\'s. Pletcher barn is regrouping, Baffert doesn\'t have Triple Crown winner. Figuring it\'s his year for the Eclipse Award but needs to earn with the necessary results first
Gonna be very tough to knock TAP off the top spot, since has so many more runners - more than twice that of Brown. Total purses, wins, etc. will dwarf Brown, even though he has a better hit rate.
In the short term, I like Pletcher to get the better of him today at Belmont with Azar. Tough trip from brutal post at CD on Derby day vs stronger pace than he will face today going 1 1/8th.
Good Luck,
Joe B.
At this time of year with Derby preps and Triple Crown races at the forefront,
one might ask \"what has Brown done for you\" with regards to Winter/Spring dirt
3YOs?
Since we are speaking about trainers, my opinion is the trainer most under the
radar in this neck of the woods is Linda Rice. Wins with claims, wins with young
runners coming off the farm, develops high priced auction purchases. Basically
stays in NY all year, very little winter exposure in Florida, I guess part of the
reason she is not as well known as some of her male counterparts.
Rice\'s Brilliant! but gappy Seymourdini nominated for one of the 3YO races on the
Belmont undercard....
He won 4 races yesterday. Sent out 2 pate developing 3YO\'s. No he isn\'t using Miff. He takes his time and trains for the long term. As I said will be major force in your wagering over this summer. Either on him or against him trying to find value.
Silver,
You have no clue what he is or isn\'t doing, nonsense about \"he\'s patient\". His results are off the charts and defy training skills/patience.
Mike
You made an accusation of cheating. And your proof is what? He wins?
Mike:
I once believed that it only worked on dirt and with speed types who either just kept going or rebroke when challenged in the lane.
Distance racing on grass all about relaxing early and using bulk of energy late which is why you\'ll never see the Navarros, Preciados, Rudys, etc show any success on the weeds.
That being said, you\'re making me think.
Good Luck,
Joe B.
If there\'s tools for humans to win 26 mile races, there\'s tools for horses to win 1 1/4 mile horse races.
Voiced an opinion but know it\'s got zero to do with that \" he\'s patient\" nonsense often used here. Do you think that hundreds of other trainers aren\'t patient too? Patience means zero if a horse has no ability.
Gotta have good stock, he does, gotta race \"hot\" he absolutely does. Owner friend with him calls him miracle worker(with smirk) Runs many all muscled up off layoffs, a sign of steroidal type use(some legal,some not)
No sour grapes, have to be insane not to use his turf horses,they always seem to fire.
miff Wrote:
> No sour grapes, have to be insane not to use his
> turf horses,they always seem to fire.
Yes and in many cases like yesterday in the Just a Game, Manhatten and 12th race, it\'s trying to figure out which one....
I preface my reply to the posts by Miff and SC by stating I believe drug use is rampant in the sport.I have no idea whether Brown uses or the effects that drug use has on turf races, particularly distance races. What I cannot figure out is why so few-restively speaking- have been caught. Using Chad Brown as an example, he has a large stable.He has several assistant trainers, many hot walkers, exercise riders and of, course favorite vets.If he ( or another large stable trainer) was using it,it is reasonable to assume many-or at least some- in his stable have full knowledge of the use. As someone who deals with civil fraud and the forensic work that often goes with it,it is impossible--not difficult-impossible-to keep the type of behavior we are talking about \"secret\"and not have one or more disgruntled employees rat someone out.I try not to think about the drug use when I am handicapping, because only a fool (in NY parlance a schmuck)would gamble on a rigged game and I try real hard not to think of myself in either of those terms.Its devastation to the game is beyond argument--but how do they get it away with it if it is so rampant?? Drives me crazy!
Rez,
Said that many times, its a mystery.
Chad Brown\'s meteoric rise, esp w/grass runners,is unprecedented since going on his own about 2007. By way of background, his stated work with Frankel is overrated. He was a whipping boy, early on, who couldn\'t put a bridle on correctly.The physical presence of the Frankel grass horses smacked of steroids which were LEGAL.Tricky, friends with Frankel, took that cue also as did many.Brown works for a brief time for Allday. His horses present power behind,males with barrel chests. Flintshire is a very talented horse, looking at him yesterday,saw a physical monster, not buying the totality of Browns success from husbandry.
So that\'s a little history,then we add a myriad of new breakthrough legal aids available to trainers today.A case can be made for success but perhaps not 100% on the square
Mike
Miff I will give you the last word and most of this is tongue in cheek....But what PED\'s are the Golden State Warriors using? Team came from nowhere 2 years ago, New head coach with ZERO previous experience. Their best player by NBA standards could be considered a dwarf and became a 2-Time MVP. This for a Team that set a league record for wins (73) and will have consecutive titles in a few days.
Steve Kerr came in with better drugs that PED protocol can\'t catch? :)
Silver,even juice cant make the splash brothers that deadly from 3 point range, that\'s just skill.I believe Walton\'s record as coach,when Kerr was out, was great.
Rez - I\'m with you on the inability to keep something like that quiet, especially in the larger barns of TAP, CB, etc...my assumption has been that rather than using anything illegal they invest the time and money in understanding what can be used when, in what jurisdiction, under what circumstances using an optimized delivery protocol. Could it be they spend the money to be on the cutting edge of equine medication protocols and in exploiting every loophole out there? As with human medication/doctors there are the 90% that follow the tried and true approaches and the 10% that are on the cutting edge, trying the latest and greatest science has to offer - surely they do not all get the same results. Just a theory but find it hard to believe that any big name trainer would get away with anything else, particularly over such a length of time and with such an incentive for someone to blow the whistle.
\"As someone who deals with civil fraud and the forensic work that often goes with it,it is impossible--not difficult-impossible-to keep the type of behavior we are talking about \"secret\"and not have one or more disgruntled employees rat someone out.\"
How can you know this?
Bet Twice Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Rez - I\'m with you on the inability to keep
> something like that quiet, especially in the
> larger barns of TAP, CB, etc...my assumption has
> been that rather than using anything illegal they
> invest the time and money in understanding what
> can be used when, in what jurisdiction, under what
> circumstances using an optimized delivery
> protocol. Could it be they spend the money to be
> on the cutting edge of equine medication protocols
> and in exploiting every loophole out there? As
> with human medication/doctors there are the 90%
> that follow the tried and true approaches and the
> 10% that are on the cutting edge, trying the
> latest and greatest science has to offer - surely
> they do not all get the same results. Just a
> theory but find it hard to believe that any big
> name trainer would get away with anything else,
> particularly over such a length of time and with
> such an incentive for someone to blow the whistle.
Probably the winning answer. It\'s the same reason Hendricks dominates in NASCAR and McClaren and Ferrari dominate F1. They got the most money, most testing, most research, etc.. They know where they can cut corners and push the envelope.
How many barns can afford hyperbaric oxygen chambers and swimming pools? How many can afford the full-time staff to take them for these types of specialized treatments and training? When you see small-timers blow up with huge win %, they are probably straight cheating with needles. The big boys with the money have the top stuff and staff to maximize performance.
Ramon Preciado said so.
Well then you figured it out. Walton is the link. He brought the stuff in that his Dad\'s UCLA teams were using when they won 88 in row. So if the Lakers are a playoff team next year....
Have a good day. I\'m on the Golf course in 15!!
46 years of litigating and common sense- does it make any sense to you that over many racing jurisdictions, each with more than super trainer, some disgruntled employee, fired vet, or someone would not have come forward? Not once? Makes no sense to me. In terms of being \"sure\" I obviously have no proof that would stand up in a court of law-- unless you consider horse after horse being claimed by the same crew moving up a zillion lengths-- and staying at that level\'for many races- sufficient circumstantial evidence.( Even the revered bounce pattern often needs to be thrown out). For what it\'s worth I have convinced myself that my poor ROI on claiming sprints is because I have no ability- none- to make logical assumptions base on patterns that sometimes defy everything I hold dear as an recreational but passionate handicapper. Until Miffs post, I Had also assumed my positive ROI ON TURF distance races was purely the of my handicapping brilliance ( insert tongue in cheek here). As stated in my previous post, I try real hard not to think about this stuff when I decide to bet- because it isn\'t healthy for my self image!
No view on chad brown using or not using, but Flintshire not the use case to prove it, no matter how well he looked physically on the track yesterday. As many pointed out here prior to the race, this horse was one of the best on the planet before chad brown ever had him.
Tons of better examples of trainers claiming horses for 12k, that have no speed, returning them 30 days later with blazing early speed and re-break skills
Jim
Flintshire had run in the US twice before, possible slight new top yesterday. (Check out the time for the last quarter, and it wasn\'t just him). Not just first time CB, first time Lasix. Castellano did a good job of not losing too much ground, too.
Frosted looks to get even better than Miff had him, I think. Now there\'s a guy who got some numbers this weekend. Kiaran and Jerkens either hot or cold.
Richard,
I agree with you one million percent, common sense tells you that in a large multi state operation with hundreds of employees keeping stuff like this hidden is IMPOSSIBLE. Especially today in our social media, 24 hour news looking for stories world.
In a former life I had 2 very old and dear friends who were a few years older than me. They both grew up in blue collar families, going to the track in August, betting sports and horses at the corner bars with their favorite bookie or bookies. One ended up in one of the top slots in the NY State Police BCI, the other was a local cities police chief. Both told me on numerous occasions that we get a lot more credit than we deserve. \"Our guys aren\'t that smart or ambitious if it were not for informants (i.e. rats) we would not know too much and would probably be out of a job\"
Both of these gentlemen used to place wagers with a guy who could be my twin brother :) back in the days before cell phones, computers, etc... they were smart enough to both have family members place their bets. They would never be caught on tape placing a bet that could cost them their careers.
We had Navarro win with 2 jump ups Derby and Oaks day during super testing. We have Miff casting a stone at Chad Brown during NYRA\'s festival of super testing and patron fleecing. I\'ve stated it myself here many times about TAP\'s magical mystical waters at PBD or PM during the winter.
I\'m certainly not naive enough to believe that we do not have rampant drug abuse in our sport of choice. There are cheaters in cycling, track & field, baseball, football, tennis, etc... We have many who are flat out bold about it and rub it in everyones face as spineless racing and gaming commissions constantly do little or nothing about it.
We as T-generates see jump up performances on a graph that sometimes defy logic.
Some can be rationalized by hay, oats, water, a few superior horseman, a maturing horse, equipment change et al. Many more are by top outfits (agree with Sekrah about big operations and money) walking the line, knowing the moronic inconsistent
permissable levels that change like the wind from jurisdiction to jurisdiction. Spending money on dentists, chiro work, acupuncture, shoes, legal supplements, hyperbaric chambers etc....
No one has ever accused Bill Mott of cheating yet ask his owners about the bills that they receive? He spends a fortune on his horses care. I had 1000 AM cocktails one morning about 15 years ago with a very prominent Nick Zito client who loved winning big races but confessed to \"you would not believe the bills and treatments he put his horses through\" at the time Zito was in the same breath as Lucas & Baffert during triple crown season.
The bottom line is we all know there are flat out cheaters getting away with a lot! We choose to wager, amend our wagers attempting to avoid specific types of races and venues where we perceive it to exist. We know we have states more interested in their rake and take from the game philosiphies than caring about the horses or least of all the gamblers who fuel the game.
At the end of the day all we have our suspicions, innuendos, theories, phobias especially when we get beat. None of us know or can prove poop!
Frank D.
Agree Frank but winning with move cheap claimers not nearly as difficult as consistently winning at the highest level( stakes, allowances)
Very true about huge vet bills from top outfits which must help.
I\'ve wondered for a while whether the trend towards putting horses on the shelf for a while during the Triple Crown trail (Nyquist and Destin being the most recent examples) is somehow related to use of steroidal or related medications that add muscle mass but then are out of the horse\'s system by the time it returns to racing.
LOL
Whittingham was plenty patient and I was pretty good over the grass - he won at a 18% clip. Here is one of my favorite quotes at the bottom of this post.
From a 1989 NY Times article written by Crist -
By the end of last year, Whittingham had trained 212 different horses who had won stakes races, including eight who had won Eclipse Awards as divisional champions: Ack Ack, Cougar II, Dahlia, Estrapade, Ferdinand, Perrault, Porterhouse and Turkish Trousers. Ack Ack in 1971 and Ferdinand in 1987 both were also named Horse of the Year.
His dominance of major California stakes is astounding, including six victories in the Santa Anita Handicap and a mind-boggling 14 in the San Juan Capistrano, at 1 3/4 miles the year\'s longest Grade I race. When visitors ask the distance of that race, the standard reply from California race-trackers is \'\'Oh, they just keep running around until Charlie\'s horse gets to the front.\'\'