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General Category => Ask the Experts => Topic started by: miff on May 23, 2016, 06:30:42 AM

Title: Early Belmont Probables
Post by: miff on May 23, 2016, 06:30:42 AM
Exaggerator, Nyquist, Suddenlybnews,Lani,Cherry Wine,Brody\'s Cause,Destin.


Probably a few more but no real gas outside of Nyquist...a little Destin.
Title: Re: Early Belmont Probables
Post by: Chas04 on May 23, 2016, 06:49:43 AM
I really wish Unified would run.
Title: Re: Early Belmont Probables
Post by: Topcat on May 23, 2016, 07:51:25 AM
Reportedly, Nyquist sports a 102 temp, Monday ayem.    #andawaywego
Title: Re: Early Belmont Probables
Post by: johnnym on May 23, 2016, 08:34:37 AM
Byk just mentioned it as well
Title: Re: Early Belmont Probables
Post by: ringato3 on May 23, 2016, 09:12:06 AM
If that becomes the field, a pretty ugly race from a handicapping perspective.

1.  Nyquist would have a huge edge from a pace perspective.

2.  Offsetting point 1 for some of us is that if you believe that TGJB posted about 10 days ago, a big X is coming for Nyquist.  He can always change his mind, but TGJB and others have been saying they expect a regression then an X for Nyquist.  The Preakness was a bit of a regression and a rough race for him.  He could bounce big in the Belmont, but if he does, he will do so with a huge tactical edge.

3.  Not a fan of any of the grinders - Suddenbreakingnews, cherry wine, brody\'s cause.  

4.  Exaggerator a tough call.  The horse has a turn of foot. A very nice one in fact (on wet or dry).  Unfortunately, the \"turn of foot\" capability has the smallest impact in the Belmont IMO.  The race is usually won by gallopers who can sustain that high cruising speed for a long period of time.  Not by a dynamic quarter mile burst that Exaggerator has shown.

5.  Destin would be interesting if he wasn\'t trained by the worst big name trainer in the last 30 years or so.  (at least as far as these triple crown races go) and Yes that is an opinion, not a fact, but the guy has gone a long way in proving that with results on the track

Aren\'t there any other sneaky horses laying out there that want to take their shot?

Rob
Title: Re: Early Belmont Probables
Post by: TGJB on May 23, 2016, 09:18:56 AM
4-- See Victory Gallop. Specifically, watch the 99 Whitney and Foster.

What\'s the difference between a galloper and a grinder, exactly?
Title: Re: Early Belmont Probables
Post by: TempletonPeck on May 23, 2016, 09:31:08 AM
Mostly, whether you like that horse/that style :-P
Title: Re: Early Belmont Probables
Post by: jbelfior on May 23, 2016, 09:35:35 AM
What is Pletcher\'s record in the Belmont? I think it best to remove his Derby and Preakness numbers when coming to any conclusions about him or Destin in 3 weeks.


Good Luck,
Joe B.
Title: Re: Early Belmont Probables
Post by: MonmouthGuy on May 23, 2016, 09:52:50 AM
Agree. He has had more than his share of horses outrun their odds and hit the board  in the Belmont, including some who had not fired earlier in the TC. Bluegrass Cat exception below as he was favored.

1st Belmont S. - 2013 - Palace Malice
1st Belmont S. - 2007 - Rags to Riches
2nd Belmont S. - 2014 - Commissioner
2nd Belmont S. - 2011 - Stay Thirsty
2nd Belmont S. - 2009 - Dunkirk
2nd Belmont S. - 2006 - Bluegrass Cat *
3rd Belmont S. - 2008 - Ready\'s Echo
3rd Belmont S. - 2006 - Sunriver
Title: Re: Early Belmont Probables
Post by: Silver Charm on May 23, 2016, 09:58:24 AM
Well put and well documented. It was a totally reckless and uninformed remark. Commissioner was like 20-1 and Palice Malice ran to then the best race of his career.
Title: Re: Early Belmont Probables
Post by: Flighted Iron on May 23, 2016, 10:27:34 AM
From 16 starters.
Title: Re: Early Belmont Probables
Post by: miff on May 23, 2016, 10:40:21 AM
Rob,

Unified is the wise guy horse except that he was life and death vs a weak field in the Peter Pan. If field comes up weak and Unified is doing well,think he goes.

Re Nyquist regression in Preakness, it was 1/4 length after pace adjustment.Also watch the Preakness close and note Exaggerator moving right into the race after app the first half,Kent D commented he caught an inside live path from the tractor.Guessing he\'s closer in Belmont if no pace up front.Still feel he\'s better wet.


If Nyquist passes on Belmont, Destin would profile that kinda speed type that could get loose and gallop around there.


Mike
Title: Re: Early Belmont Probables
Post by: ringato3 on May 23, 2016, 11:10:01 AM
TGJB,

A \"grinder\" to me would be one of the horses that drops back to last or thereabouts and makes a steady close, maybe better than \"steady\" when the pace is hot enough.  How many horses this year in the Derby had the same running style of dropping back to last and coming late.  (13 or so of them - Suddenbreakingnews, MyManSam, NoTom, Lani, Creator, Trojan Nation, OScar Nominated, Whitmore, etc.etc

A \"galloper\" would be a horse with a high cruising speed that can run closer to the lead and click off 24 and change quarters.  Palace Malice was that kind.  First Dude didn\'t hang on, but was that kind.  Union Rags and Rags to Riches both had that kind of tactical speed.  As did Tonalist.

Sure, Victory Gallop was an exception and I don\'t need to watch the replay.  That nose cost me a relative fortune and nightmares.  But that kind of stirring finish from well off the pace is sort of the exception in the Belmont, isn\'t it?  

Rob
Title: Re: Early Belmont Probables
Post by: TempletonPeck on May 23, 2016, 11:17:26 AM
Fair to say \'galloper\' is ~= \'stalker\'?
Title: Re: Early Belmont Probables
Post by: Edgorman on May 23, 2016, 12:10:48 PM
Is Byk on Sirius radio?? If so, time and channel?? Thx.
Title: Re: Early Belmont Probables
Post by: joemama on May 23, 2016, 12:15:21 PM
Ed, I think channel 93.  You can go to stevebyk.com for the archives.
Title: Re: Early Belmont Probables
Post by: Edgorman on May 23, 2016, 12:16:29 PM
Thanks much.  Will check it out.
Title: Re: Early Belmont Probables
Post by: Tale Of Ekati on May 23, 2016, 12:35:12 PM
What about Clement\'s horse that ran second in the Peter Pan, Governor Malibu?
What about horses like Mo Tom, Tom\'s Ready, Gun Runner, Creator, Outwork?
Are they passing?
Title: Re: Early Belmont Probables
Post by: big18741 on May 23, 2016, 12:58:56 PM
Sounds like Creator and Mo Tom are possible.
Think we see a few more names pop up over the next week or two and hopefully not all one run closers.

Brody\'s Cause off those 3\'s and five weeks rest looks ready for a break thru at this distance.
Title: Re: Early Belmont Probables
Post by: Tale Of Ekati on May 23, 2016, 01:08:24 PM
Desormeaux is old school. Wouldn\'t be surprised if he ran a rabbit.
Title: Re: Early Belmont Probables
Post by: johnnym on May 23, 2016, 01:27:09 PM
As a trainer can you really run Nyquist after spiking a fever today?
As a investor can you bet on him knowing he had a fever?
Title: Re: Early Belmont Probables
Post by: mjellish on May 23, 2016, 01:47:43 PM
He had a fever before the KY Derby too.  Just saying...
Title: Re: Early Belmont Probables
Post by: johnnym on May 23, 2016, 01:56:31 PM
I am pretty sure it was never a fever just a elevated WBC count..

http://www.horseracingnation.com/news/Nyquist_Delayed_by_Slightly_Elevated_White_Blood_Cell_Count_123#
Title: Re: Early Belmont Probables
Post by: Leamas57 on May 23, 2016, 05:43:53 PM
I think Lani right now is a good bet to win the Belmont. While I know that the classic deep closer idea doesn\'t always translate for this race, this guy is a deep \"cruiser.
 I think he can run all day and I wouldn\'t be surprised if he goes off around 8 or ten to one.

As much as I respect the son of Curlin and team Desorneaux, I think Lani might be able to take him (and the others).

I suppose I should support my opinion, so let\'s say I see a horse bred superbly who seems to be progressing and who was closing faster than anyone in the Preakness.

Leamas